Not Sure How Much I Like The 57's Crossfader

I know most users are in love with the crossfader on the 57. I agree its a great fader with great cuts for scratching and the ability to accurately engage when you want the cut to come in. I have only owned the 57 for about a month and have only used it out for 1 weekend, but so far, not very impressed. I bought it because it was the only option for the Video-SL plugin and was previously doing video using my DJM 800 (midi mapped). Maybe there is a way to adjust the main issue that I am having, hopefully I can get some help.

I want to be able to make the fader better for mixing. Now, I have played with the appropriate slider for the adjustments of the fader but can't seem to find the sweet spot that I'm looking for. I want to get the SAME volume of the program song (playing track) from the end to the middle and then after the fader hits the middle the sound starts to dive down. Also the incoming track has the same slope. That way in the middle I have the same exact volume of each track. Not LOWER than each side would be if it was all the left or right. I have tried every position available. I can get the sound to come in how I like it but when I get the fader in the middle, both volumes seem to get a little lower. It through me off all weekend. If I adjust it any other way I get to much of a cut. I want a setting near the X on the Pioneer mixers with maybe a little more cut, like the 800's sideways J.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Charlie Five

Agree Charlie...I've been asking for this option for some time now. I actually went back to using my DJM-600 and 909 because of this issue. Hopefully Serato will add the abilility to customize the slope of the faders in the near future...

CO SIGN!!!!!
The slope on this fader is horrible for mixing, and moves a little too easy for my taste....i'll have the fader all the way towards a channel, and it seems to creap back towards the middle just a hair, enough to let whatevers playing in other channel bleed in. yuck.

Thinking of going back to a vestax mixer and sl1 box for serious mixing work....kinda suks cause i was hyped on the fact that you can record right back into serato with the ttm57, but if i cant get my mixes to sound the way i want them to, there is no point to record them.

Rane, please step up your game.

you guys are effing crazy...

I can't think of a better crossfader. I effing love it!

I agree with Charlie and Vega. It would be nice to be able to assign the fader curve as described above. Would make for much cleaner mixing when doing extended (8bar, 16bar, 32bar......) mixes.
The best setting for me now is about 1/4 to 1/2 from the left. Im still debating. For settings in this range, I slowly mix to 1/4 position (both volumes near peak) to mix-in, then push through the fader to the other 1/4 postion (both volumes still near peak) to mix-out. HOWEVER, this sucks if I have the video assigned to the crossfader because as soon as I cross the center position (using Latch50), my video crosses over. (I WISH WE COULD HAVE MIDI ASSIGNED VIDEO CONTROLS!)

BTW, not exactly a cosign curve. Its a straight line (max volume) to the mid point, then a -45degree (or 270degree, whichever you prefer) slope to zero.

To make it really sick, and totally customized, they could make 'user defined' curves in the Scratch software, where you could draw in your own curves! X's, cosign's, mid-point with 45degree slopes, mid-points with parabolic slopes, quick-cuts, whatever! Or at least have a ton more options, and help us to visually see what the curve is SUPPOSED TO sound like (visually) if they make the options assignable in the software.

the 57 is not a house djs best friend!

the fader is the best for everything else.
i use the up and downs sometimes for differnet mixing.

Yea, if you're a cd pusher this mixer is probably not for you. It's like comparing a Cadillac to 911 turbo.

Exactly what I would want.

I'm not a house DJ but do all video and alot of inter-genre mixing. I do alot of extended mixes with loops or extended tracks. Which as gmoney described above, 8,16,32 bar mixes makes it very hard and not very clean with this 3db dip.

sorry?

you're serious actually arent you

Its not that the the mixer is bad. Or the fader sucks. It's just there isn't an option for a common way most DJ's use the crossfader. One that is used by the most common and 'Industry Standard' mixers in the club scene.

Personally I can't stand the 3db dip. If I move the slider over more to compensate for it then it makes it to much of a scratch mixer. Great if I'm scratching, not great if I'm trying to put on a 3-5 hour show. Not great if I'm trying to blend different video transitions together.

George W. Bush is a great president too.

Kinda...for a mixer this advanced(and expensive) not to have adjustable slope is a joke to me. Granted it is a scratch mixer (and it's a great one too), but...the dip in sound when mixing really sucks.

+1

+2

This was the first thing I noticed when actually mixing after coming from a Vestax mixer. I still LOVE my Vestax mixer more than my 57 when it comes to this.

I also love my Vestax compare to my 57 when it comes to the feel of the faders. The faders are semi-weak.

Sixxx...

Can you tell me the difference between the Rane and Vestax faders? Are the Rane's too loose or something? I have never really got to every mess around with a Vestax mixer for an extended period of time. I was looking at picking up an 08 as a backup but might be going the Scratchbox route.

Yea, I definitely don't want to sound like I am complaining...this mixer is definitely awesome and I love everything about it except for the fader curves. Maybe this is because I am so used to my 909 where I can customize all three faders independently. It just seems to me that user selectable curves would be relatively easy to implement into the SSL software. However, I'm not a programmer so this may be more difficult than I envision. If this ever happens, I'll sell my 909 and 600 and get 2 more 57's :)

ah yes, the 3db dip in the middle! i would suggest using your line faders for mixing instead of the cross fader cuz you don't have to worry about the dip in sound in the middle. this used to bother me as well and then i started using the line faders for the mixing, the x fader for the scratching.

1. The shape of the fader. The Vestax has edges which help some with twiddles, etc.
2. The feel of the fader. The Vestax is just better built. Also the stem of the vestax fader is longer which is a good thing. The 57 fader becomes loose quite easily.
3. The curve that everyone talks about.
4. The feel of the fader. The 57 isn't smooth. I had to get the torsion spring out of the way to make it feel closer to the vestax (more loose) but it ended up being too much and the fader would move under heavy bass.

I've been using the line faders forever. I actually don't use the crossfader except to cut. For blending, I use the line faders. However, the dip is there no matter what and it fucks you up even when you're using the line faders.

Thanks for the info.

I use the 57 pretty much strictly for video. I need to be able to move the fader back/forth, fast/slow, leave in the middle, ect...for video effects.

on the points above.... (not used the vestax 08, talking about 05,06,07 models)

1) the newer ttm57's have more vestax like fader caps....
2) the shorter fader stem means they don't snap like the vestax did.not sure I agree about the vestax faders being better built either.
3) curve is down to what you prefer? I have the x-fader on fast all the time so the 3db dip doesn't affect me.
4) find the 57 faders to be smooth with the torsion still attached?

i was under the impression that the dip was there only in the slow crossfader setting.. i.e. not the scratch setting.

Why do people choose to use the crossfader for mixing rather than the line faders. Sorry for the noob question but I never could figure this out

Why would a mixer have a crossfader then? You can't honestly believe that all mixers have crossfaders for people to scratch with.

For those that dont scratch, why do you use the crossfader instead of the line fader? just curious

Just the way I learned. I scratch a little here and there (my 1986 scratches). My main thing is that I try to change things up a lot when I mix. The line faders might be cool to mix with if the crossfader could be disengaged but since you can't I would hate to cut off a song when quick mixing from accidentally bumping the fader over.

+1!!

answer please.........i would also like to know why this is!

Because you use one hand instead of two?

You are correct.

exactly...if you have the x-fader setting all the way to fast, there is NO db dip, so line fading is perfect (as perfect as you are get at it). as far as line fading and mistakingly pushing the x-fader to the other side and cutting off a song, first you would have the x-fader on fast so if you did manage to do that quickly tapping it back over will bring the sound right back in cause x-fader is on fast cut (and if you really slick you keep it on beat like you did it on purpose).

All they have to do is make it so we can select the dip, or no dip, and then nobody has a reason to argue this point. Damn, I swear sometimes people are so hard headed. Get over it guys, not everyone is a scratch DJ. Some of us want to use a mixer that integrates the best program around. It seems that there are plenty of EDM people that feel the same. And why should we be limited using the X-fader if we want? Would you like it if a feature of the mixer was totally useless for you? I doubt it. Just make it adjustable and they've served whole other group of Serato users. Geeze!

+1 on that. It just makes sense...The only thing that I dislike about Video-SL is that I have to deal with the mixer and the associated dip. Love the mixer but even with the adjustment slider in the middle it cuts out to fast. It kills some of my mixes.

I mean how hard would it be to do some sort of update? Firmware? Is that even possible?

Someone should make a poll where the actual numbers on people who like or dislike the dip is recorded. Maybe if enough people mobilize something could be done about it. I really see NO BENEFIT from it.

I don't like the dip either and I can scratch. :)

+1

My mixes are definitely more smooth with my Vestax mixer.

Fwiw, I think this is the curve those of us complaining are after:

tasty-tunes.com

And yes, putting the cross fader in "fast" and using the line faders works, but I'm one of those guys who misses mj DJM500 for having exactly this curve.

Hopefully these curves are in software and Rane or the Serato guys could do a firmware patch to at least make this curve an option?

Sadly, no-one from Rane or Serato seems to have posted on any of these subjects...

we've been on at them about this for ages, but there is still no word on adjustable curves. Sometimes I miss my SL1 and DJM600 :-(

The trouble is, I really use the control section in the middle of the TTM57SL heavily, so I don't really have a choice...

persoonally,the only issue i have with the 57 fader is how easily it can allow bleed back in from the other channel. i cut alot so i dont like messing with the curve control, so i leave it sharp.but it often previews the incoming track when i dont want it to. but im not bitchin... love them faders..

+1

it happen to me 2 times ! and it was terrible ! but it was because i was careless and not paying attention ( drink one drink two ) lol!

but i do agree you have to be carefull sometimes.

Adjusting the hall sensors located on the faders PCB board will eliminate any bleeding you might be experiencing.

Taken from the Rane FAQ -->> rane.com

thats all good , but my cahonies aint big enuff to go messing arond inside the fader.... im happy enuff with it working... and working well..ha!

Sure you do...just get a midi controller and assign everything you use. Works like a charm and no pesky group selection.

Yeah, but what midi controller would you recommend that's that small and will live happily in your average DJ booth which is already usually way to cramped?

OK cool...so someone is paying attention to this thread, if not the issue. I know we're not supposed to ask "when"...how about "IF" you guys are ever going to get on this and fix the crappy crossfader on your $1200 mixer?

Or do we need 3 threads for that?

house guys....think the best house mixer ever....the ueri.
you control THE LINE.

faders are for hiphop.
you should not be MIXING/BLENDING with the fader.

Yes, and by the way mixing with the line faders ISN'T a two hand operation, I use one hand on both faders just fine. One thing about the crossover though-I don't get bleeding, but if I just slap it over to one side, it will bounce back just enough to bring in the other channel (xfader set to 'fast'). I don't remember that happening with my last mixer. Something to keep in mind after that sixth beer

you're not supposed to use one hand on the line faders. thats why theres 2 of them. one is made for your right hand, and the other is made for your left hand. you must be new.

one thing I do....and I see alot of other EDM djs do is not "grab" the line fader.
but put your index finger flush on the mixer (say where the cutout is for the fader to slide up and down) and ever so slightly NUDGE the fader with your finger-tip.
with the faders these days being like butter its hard to get that perfect placement of the fader if you grab it like an atari2600 joystick. (am I dating myself with that?)

Ohhhhh, two separate faders... one for EACH hand! Gosh I just never imagined it could be like that, so intuitive, so genius! Way to go Rane, once again you've exceeded my expectations! Will you be adding this Left & Right feature to more of your products?? I guess my only issue is that now that I'm using both hands on the faders, how will I ever coordinate f/x? Or scratch out the fading record? Or slap somebody for a wack request (or suggestion..)? Geez maybe I'll have to bring on a partner...waddyasay JAY O? Wanna be my right hand?

yeah man im here for you! im sure more dj's will start using the buddy system once they realize that they are supposed to use 2 hands on the faders.

It's been a while....!

I have some news though - 1.9.1 is in public beta now and we have made some changes to the 57 crossfader. From the release notes:

- New TTM57 Firmware v3.20. This firmware update eliminates the 'dip' in the x-fader.

This thread contains a link to the beta:
www.serato.com

Enjoy, and let us know if you like the changes :)

Wow, took you long enough ;-)

Seriously though: YAY! I'd just about stopped using my TTM57SL because of this issue and it's great to have it gone.

Out of interest, do you have docs for the new curves yet? Specifically, how does the the contour slider now work? I suspect all the diagrams in my mixer's manual dont' apply anymore.

However, as far as testing does, having the contour slider far left now gives me exactly what I had with the Pioneer DJM500, and I'm really happy about that :-)

USE THE GAIN KNOBS, back of each EQ band and gain knobs as u mix, to negate the faders slope, it can be done however a tiny bit aggravating. I think most of the guys with this problem just don't want to adjust the way they mix. I admit I'm not TOTALLY in love with the 57SL, I miss the upfader short slopes on the pioneer DJM-800 (nice upfader cuts there, 57SL doesn't come close)

either way its possible to adjust your mixing technique and remain clean on the audio AND video transistions......

:)

Er, Blaze, please take the time to read what Nick posted:

Download Serato 1.9.1 beta 2, install the new firmware to the mixer, problem solved...

Nick M -

Better late than never! I am new to vinyl mixing (only doing it for about two years, which means I'm not even wearing pull down diapers yet) but this old problem even bothered me!

I just tested it out after reading this thread (I downloaded the new SSL and firmware last week) and it seems much better to my infant ears.

THANK YOU SERATO.

Just to get things straight and make sure I am not missing anything...

In the 1.9.2 version (most current) or 1.9.1 version of SSL the firmware update is automatic for the 57? What I mean by that, is there anything else I need to do after downloading 1.9.2 to install the firmware on the mixer?

I guess I haven't noticed any change as my 57 only comes out of my UDG bad for my Saturday night shows...

I am currently on 1.9.2 (final release). Macbook Pro, 17", 2.8, 4gb ram.

Thanks!

C5

Duuuuh! I figured it out...Guess I never knew there was an upgrade firmware in the settings menu. I was on 3.02 or something. Now wonder I have been bitching about this mixer.

Cheers,

C5

First time without the dip last night! MUCH MUCH BETTER!

Thanks. Wish I would have paid attention when this first came available...

Yep, I'm very happy now that the silly dip is gone :-)

Is there going to be an option to have a custom dip?