Expirement on who is able to reproduce this

Since not everyone frequents the Help forum, I thought I'd see if any of you would be willing to try something for me. It seems like I'll get a dropout to happen when I'm playing long mixes in auto mode for a while (longer than 1-2hr). So, if some of you have some time, could you let SSL play unattended for a long time and let me know your results? Here's what you gotta do:

- Reboot computer
- Start SSL - make sure it's in the foreground (taskbar not visible).
- Put both decks in INT
- Turn on auto
- go to a crate that has full 1-hour long mixes. I recommend DJ River's "colored room" mixes (www.djriver.com)
- load the first mix to the left and right deck. do NOT put the needles on the records. Hit play on the right deck - leave the left deck alone - enjoy the tunes
- let SSL sit for at least two full mixes - the longer the better
- put the needle on either spinning control record (or CD) and see if you get about 15 seconds worth of dropouts

btw, I have a PC, so it might not happen on a Mac. However, I it might happen on either system. If you are able to reproduce the dropout, feel free to post a message here:

www.scratchlive.net

If it doesn't do it, lemme know! It's an odd circumstance for a dropout that I don't think many people run into it because they are mixing the whole time. Plus, it's not the easiest thing to reproduce. However, I thought if a few other people tried it, it would help narrow things down...

Thanks for your help!
Mike

are these individual dropouts adding up to 15secs over a period of 1-2hrs, or is it a 15sec long dropout that happens after an hour or so?

Sorry - It will be a continuous string of dropouts that start once you put the needle on the spinning record and the music will stutter hard-core during that period

The indicator bar will also be red during that time and then after about 15 seconds the bar goes grey and all is normal again...

are you on internal or external?

As far as hard drive, everything is internal - but that doesn't preclude testing it with an external drive.

One thing - I don't want to turn this into a troubleshooting thread because that one is already listed above. I'm just looking for people to try this out and provide feedback. I appreciate your help!!

Just curious. Why are you playing tracks longer then an hour in Internal mode?

I quite often get drop outs when I switch back into REL mode. Sometimes it's when I switch and sometimes it's when I put the needle on the record.

(And I'm on a Mac)

I've spun a couple of my friend's wedding receptions and I usually play DJ River's mixes while we're all eating and then I hop on the decks when they all want to dance. Problem is, once I hop on the decks, it's dropout city for 15 seconds until it clears up. Also, sometimes when I'm at home, I'll also throw on some mixes through SSL and that will also cause the problem. Oddly enough, it doesn't usually happen with single tracks in AUTO, so that's probably why you don't have many people running into this...

... that, or it's just isolated to all 3 laptops that I've tested ;)

So it would be really helpful if you're able to give it a try - I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!
Mike

Oddly enough, I can switch through all the modes, unplug the box, and even change buffer settings and once I put that needle on, it's dropout city.

As far as other issues, I can't really say whether or not it's related. But if it is, and they fix it, it's win-win for all of us.

Give the test a try on your mac and let's see what happens. Keep us posted with the results!

Thanks!
Mike

I would just sugest to run the mix through Itunes. Quick and easy fix. Wouldn't have to worry about any dropouts happening. i'm sure you already thought of this.

The goal here is trying to figure out why the dropouts are happening so that if there is a bug, it can be resolved. I just need more people to try it to see if the behavior is just isolated to the laptops I've tested, or if it extends out further.

I appreciate your suggestions, but it would be really helpful if you could try it out to see if you're able to replicate the problem.

Thanks!

Got it. I'll test it out tonight. I'll throw on one of my mixes and let it play. I'll post results tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks - I appreciate it! Just make sure it plays for a good couple hours and don't touch it at all. The longer you let it play through a few mixes, the more likely, and longer the dropout session..

This used to happen to me on my old AMD pc but doesn't happen on my new INTEL pc...is your pc a amd prossecor?

hmm... it's a p4 intel. I have a core 2 duo that I'm going to try it on as well.

Did you try running the test I wrote up to see if your intel would do it?

What the hell, I'll give it a try tonight after the titty bar. I'll post the results for you mike.

:) thanks!

anyone able to reproduce it?

I think something like this happened to me recently. Typically I play house and use exclusively absolute mode on my cdjs, but I decided to do a hip hop mix and wanted some of the looping of relative mode available. I switched modes a few times, but at some point there was a whole lot of USB noise (static-y sounding stuff, pretty much sounds like dropouts but without the red USB status) and I couldn't get rid of it. I unplugged the box, changed channels, changed USB ports, it kept happening.

Now, for whatever reason, it's fine again. Maybe it's a similar cause.

Well, give the test a try and see if you can reproduce the behavior...

okay, did it. no problems...
i used my acer for the test, as it is the weaker machine

computer specs
AMD athlon 64X2 dual core TK-57 1.9 GHz
2G ram
no active anti-virus running
left wi-fi turned on

scratch live version: 1.9.1 (19136)
open scratchlive
switch to internal
loaded a 3 hour long mix to right deck (Blackline Megamix)
pressed play
watched a movie (What Lies Beneath)
2 hours later:
put needle on record - no problems
pressed play on turntable - no problems
switched to rel mode and scratched - no problems

i will try again with 30min mixes and using autoplay like you did

did you load the mix to both decks? For some odd reason you have to load a track to the left and right decks (can be the same track), but leave the left deck sitting.

no, i the left deck was empty.. will try it again after the club tonight

yeah, oddly enough, it doesn't seem to happen if you don't have a track loaded on both decks. Here are the steps:

gotcha

anyone able to reproduce it?

For those that are curious about the progress on this issue, you may find this interesting:

www.csulb.edu

thanks,
Mike

Ok everyone,
I am happy to announce that I am about 99% confident that I have found the culprit to this very long-standing problem. I updated my page with all the info, but I'll post it here as well:

What we know so far

* Disabling the performance setting: "use visual styles on windows and buttons" will cause SSL to be paged out to the pagefile (after some period of time) and then cause dropouts when any audio is received on the SL1 inputs. This is due to the fact that SSL is being read back from the pagefile.
* The dropouts are caused by SSL being paged out to the pagefile. The computer type (p3, p4, core2duo, etc), memory, etc are not the root cause of the problem. They might cause SSL to get paged out sooner or later, but they are not the cause of the problem
* Dropouts will NOT happen when the taskbar is visible
* This is not related to any particular tracks. You don't even have to have the tracks playing to cause SSL to get paged to the pagefile.
* The SL1 box does not need to be connected for SSL to be paged to the pagefile. It does need to be connected to trigger the dropouts as that's how you feed the signal into SSL
* During the continuous dropouts (while the control signal is being played), the pagefile is being accessed heavily
* With Symantec AntiVirus loaded, it looks like it will take about 154 minutes of playback, which is essentially 20 minutes into my third mix (K&D - DJ kicks), to trigger the dropouts. If you don't have SAV loaded, it will take longer to cause SSL to get paged to the pagefile.
* Symantec AntiVirus is not the cause of the dropouts, but it will cause SSL to get paged out to the pagefile sooner.
* This has nothing to do with how many crates you have
* The dropouts will happen regardless of whether a track is playing or not. You can unload the decks and the dropouts will still happen as the incoming audio will trigger SSL to be read back from the pagefile.
* If the pagefile is disabled, you will not get dropouts, which is kinda obvious because this problem relates specifically to the pagefile. Disabling the pagefile, however, will cause lots of other problems.
* Ethernet connectivity or enabled/disabled status does not have an effect on the dropouts

Things that we kinda know, but I don't have time to test

* It seems like a reboot is needed to cause the dropout session to happen again. Maybe restarting SSL might make it do it again, but I don't have time to test that so I'm just going to keep rebooting.

And if you'd like to verify my results, take a look at my testing summary here:

www.csulb.edu

I might wipe out the test machine one more time to confirm, but I might just call it a day as I'm pretty content that the problem is solved.

I would recommend that this information be posted on the forums to instruct people not to use the "use visual styles on windows and buttons" setting otherwise other people can run into this problem.

I hope all of this will come in handy in some way, shape, or form. If anything, I was able to solve my own problem, but maybe it might also lead to some tweaks in the software to avoid this happening at all. I would venture to guess that there are other people that select the "best performance" option, which will disable the problematic setting mentioned above and trigger the dropouts.

Enjoy!
Mike

*tracking*

I left my ssl on overnight spinning the right deck on internal mode...I woke up hearing clicking from my speakers, and saw my mixer showing levels, including in the red.

that's interesting. Btw, did you try turning off "use visual styles on windows and buttons"? That should cause it to dropout the next time you play the control signal after letting it play for a few hours.