Single CDJ 400...possible? Good solution for Serato?

Hi,
I was a long time Technics 1200/vinyl lover, then as music keeped evolving and I started remixing and re-editing tracks, I moved over to CDJ 200s quite happily.
Songs kept growing in my collection, buying from various sources!
So...Serato SSL was my next step, with a latest gen macbook. I love it. Stable, worked many nights without any problem. All my songs so easy to reach!
Great software usability, great audio interface sound.
The only thing I hate, personally: Serato SSL is very dependent on what you use to control it - if you find a screwed 1200 in the club, you're stuck.
What makes me angry is that Serato lacks the ability to let you save such situations: if it would only incorporate the VERY BASIC stuff of Traktor/VDJ, you COULD mix somehow even without a controller.

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It's a legit desire: computers are surely smart enough to mimic DECENTLY, sure not perfectly, a CDJ 100. At least as a backup solution! Picture yourself Serato screen turning and changing to a simple screen with very big buttons. Play.Cue.Pitch bend +/-. ENORMOUS pitch control. Add some keyboard shortcuts.
I want a single player on the screen. I love the input reverse feature, I always use it also in the club - if I'm in a hurry during setup.
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So my experimenting spirit came back again, and while still loving and enjoying Serato, I started to look for other software to play with. I love to learn new possibilities and new instruments for mixing. I'm a great fan of Kerri Chandler and he plays with everything.


Since I have a 4 ch audio usb box, an M-Audio FastTrack PRO, I installed Traktor Scratch Pro, Virtual DJ, an M-Audio XSession Pro controller wich was upgraded to a Stanton DaScratch s3d controller.

After some days of playing also in public with these softwares, this is my conclusion.

Being said that Serato keeps much more of the DJing feel, and has IMHO the best sound quality, both Traktor AND Virtual DJ are interesting things. And the Stanton touch sensitive controller can PERFECTLY be used as a simple CDJ. A very innovative piece of equipment. But keep reading.
I played with them (Traktor & VDJ) for a couple of weeks and I have to say that I can GREATLY mix with these 2 softwares and do nice looping fx wich I used to do in Serato too, but "humanly". It's very easy.

BUT...read the whole thing. I had some issues sometimes wich really could ruin my set. The whole Stanton controller software IS severely buggy - and sometimes the controller stops working or acts crazily.
OK, they might fix it. But maybe not - Serato SSL was surely a mature product when I bought it two years ago, but worked from day one.

The music stops to play, or has some hickups - I do not want this to happen while playing in a club. At home I can tolerate it, once a day maybe...but not in a club.

Even if I'm a tech guy - I'm considering to choose not to use professionally Traktor/VDJ - they are too dependent on the interface, and on the controller.

Serato SSL is more basic but the whole experience was every time SO MUCH EASIER in all aspects - even wiring a conventional interface is more annoying than setting up the SL box wich WISELY has NO controls and clearly labeled inputs.....


A small note: I just came back from a night in a small club where the Stanton CDJ-like players kept jumping and the dj couldn't mix properly - a nightmare.
I saved the DJ, a friend of mine, with my laptop: I ran VDJ and started to mix without headphones. Tricky, reading only the waveforms, but possible. I wasn't expect to do this for sure but it saved the situation!

But...My final DJ decision? I'll stick with Serato SSL - but with a dedicated controller wich I can bring with me at the club - I love the controller being able to choose songs so I don't need to touch the laptop, plus reading analog timecodes looks pretty stupid when using cdjs - it's surely not a straightforward idea and keeps uselessly busy the cpu for decoding.

I'd love to have a single controller, but a quality one.
The M-audio and many I saw are insufficient, and my experience with the Stanton controller software, DaRouter, is scary.

I had a look to the new Serato Itch - some things looks cool but some things don't convince me - I love to use my Pioneer 400 or UREI mixer in case, not such a small thing with small knobs so close together, I can't mix properly that way.

Unfortunately the Itch concept is not available in a "single player" + external mixer via SL1 solution - this makes many of us angry for sure - I'd love just to have a RANE/Serato midi controller, like many of us have said, and I'd love to re-use my SL serato audio interface, why not!

So my next decision is TO BUY A CDJ400 Pioneer cd player to control Serato....I really love it's ability to run as a serato midi controller via usb AND to play ordinary CDs, alternatively, of course - I think a spare cd player, in an emergency situation, could be a nice thing to have.

I have some important questions. I refer to using Serato scratch Live with the Pioneer CDJ 400 connected via USB. Single CDJ.

- Is a single CDJ, usb - connected, sufficient for mixing? I mean : DOES the input reverse switch work on Serato? And is there a hardware mapping on the CDJ400?

- Wich functions are behaving differently than what I'd ordinary expect from the CDJ? I know of course the analog out of the CDJ can't play, and that the FX won't work, but.....how about the loops? I care for the auto 8/4/etc loops that the latest Serato Scratch Live can do. I want to be able to do that without touching the computer.

- Does the CDJ wheel behave as it would when using it as an ordinary cd player? Same right feel, same scratching ability?

- I expect pitch control to behave even better and have a faster response compared to when using it via analog out/Serato CD record. What about it?

- What about OVERALL USABILITY & performance of the Serato / Single CDJ400 combo? Is there any user who had fun with it?

I've read that there have been some issues but the latest CDJ400 firmware update should have solved everything - is it a smart buy in your opinion? Is it mature enough to perform live?

Thank you for all your suggestions!!!

I'd add an important detail: I would love so much the Stanton Touch sensitive controller (Dascratch) to control Serato, like it does with Traktor, (vinyl mode, cdj style) but WITHOUT the DaRouter software.

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I'd even consider not to buy the Pioneer CDJ if Serato Scratch Live could PROPERLY work with the Stanton DaScratch - if fine pitch tuning was well implemented.
I'd immediately buy another controller as well, like the Staton but.... a bit bigger, a bit more responsive, with the Serato brand name on it, and well implemented!
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lol about the Dream Mode.

anyone?

I bought a cdj 400 for this very reason, as well as for small places. Ill use a cdj 400 w a 57sl and use instant doubles. Mixing n scratching should not be a problem. My cdj comes this week, ill post findings. I also like the cd/mp3/usb backup options. There is also shortcut on the cdj to send an instant double to the other deck.

can somebody please confirm that a single CDJ in USB mode can fully control both decks using the classic input reverse switch? Thanks!

seems nobody loves this question :(
no problem I'll test by myself borrowing a cdj400 from a friend.

Hey there matteoionescu.

Yeah, you can use one CDJ400 in USB mode to control both ScratchLIVE virtual decks.
As long as you've got the driver side of things setup and follow this you'll be fine:

serato.com

I have just been using this, and it's solid as a rock. Nice cheap, compact DJ setup :)

Not so sure about a quick function to get the track playing into the other deck, be nice. Ctrl Shift <- or Ctrl Shift -> will load the track currently playing to the other deck, so that's probably the easiest way.

thanks Matt fot the great tips, I kinda thought it was ok, but just wanted to be sure! No need for 2 cdjs for non cutting/scratch dj, if space is limited...

I use it to control two decks, but I just keep it on the left of the mixer and use instant doubles. I mix in a track and then I use the hold plus push the knob effect to load the track on the right int deck. I then mix in the new track on the cdj. No real need for two unless doing a lot of juggling. And other turntablist tricks. I always have so much fun with this cdj..... oh yeah, it does working input reverse too really well! I prefer this deck over the cdj 1000 with ssl.

hmmmm.. Might have to take a look at this.

Pioneer should introduce the USB port & HID protocol on all models....they really should. Currently, the CDJ 400 is much ahead of the other models, Serato SSL-wise :)

Clubs mostly install the CDJ 1000s and using the timecode cd is so old fashioned....

USB is tighter and lets you install your serato ssl setup easily: using the USB, you don't have to unplug the cdj's analog out wich goes to the mixer....so you don't mess up things for other djs not using SSL. This would be excellent IMHO: I hate the preparation moment - I've been able to install the SL1 box & start up my macbook while the other dj's record is playing, but each time it makes me feel nervous :)
Something can always go wrong especially with worn needles, bad headshell contacts, cables, or too abused cdjs. USB removes a lot of these problems, forgetting the timecode cd as well :D

IMHO with Snow Leopard and 2 cdjs, reliability is not 100%: yesterday the cue button didn't work ALWAYS.....sometimes was just ignored.
Macbook + usb powered hub